Brexit Discussion

[Ned Seagoon]

I was surprised not to find a thread on this subject, so I've started this, please join in and add your thoughts.

I'll preface this with a little about myself, I'm a British born dual Australian/UK citizen, resident in Australia.

I was horrified when the result of the referendum was announced, particularly because the majority of those voting seem to have had no idea what they were actually voting for. (I didn't get a vote, the rules precluded me from voting.) Now, some years later, it still has not been fully determined what the result of that vote actually was.

I can, from a distance, now see what many people actually wanted, but most seem to have failed to appreciate the things that would probably become attached to that desire.

It seems to me something like holding a referendum to abolish all taxes. Most would probably vote yes, and once it had happened complain that they had to pay to see the doctor, go to hospital, send their kids to school, pay tolls to drive on any road, and so on.

I believe that the better way would have been to stay in the EU and use political means to change the things that were objected to. eg: Remove some of the arbitrary powers from the bureaucrats and make the politicians who represent you make those decisions, make a rule that citizens of the country get first choice for any local jobs, first choice on any accommodation rental, etc.

That said, others may like to have a say about these things, please try to be constructive.

Now what I predict may happen in the near and distant future.

I think Boris Johnson will shortly call a General Election. If he wins, that Britain will leave the EU, probably without a deal. If someone else wins a new referendum will be called where people are give a list of what they are actually voting for and against.

If the UK leaves, some time afterwards Scotland will again vote to become an independent country, and that vote will succeed.

Some time after that Northern Ireland will vote to leave the UK and possibly will join Scotland or perhaps the rest of Ireland. And finally as a long shot, Ireland, Northern Ireland and Scotland will amalgamate to become one country and it becomes a member of the EU.

Let's see how my distant predictions evolve.

Please add your thoughts.

 

[Ned Seagoon]

On a slightly different note, we have Nigel Farage here in Australia at the moment sprouting forth on all manner of topics, including Bexit. I really believe he is one person who should have been drowned at birth. A totally obnoxious fool.

 

[RustyKnight]

I thought this was a forum for computers and problems, not politics

 

[Ned Seagoon]

But this is the water cooler, which by definition means other topics are OK. What are your thoughts on the topic?

 

[RustyKnight]

To be honest, I don't care, I'll just be glad when/if it's all over, sick of hearing the word all the time.

 

[Ned Seagoon]

Thanks Rusty, I can certainly understand the frustration of hearing the subject mentioned every time you turn on the TV or the radio. My thoughts go deeper than the superficial rubbish trotted out by so many commentators.

When I was born my father was off fighting in WWII in North Africa, he went on to Italy from there and then over to Greece once the war was over, to help with the clean up. He didn't make it home till Christmas eve 1945. I was two and a half by then. The effects of that failure to bond have lasted my whole life. (but enough of me for now)

My thoughts are that if the whole of Europe is politically combined, rather than wars to sort out disagreements, politicians can do it with words in parliament.

I am aware that many object to those foreigners coming and pinching UK jobs,but it cuts both ways, UK citizens can take work in many other countries, live in other places, some even have warmer winters and so on.

If the UK become the odd man out in Europe, it will be the country that is blamed for all the ills that occur in other countries. Take a thought how the Jewish people were blamed for everything that was wrong in Germany and what the result of that was and so on.

 

[Sobeit]

Yo Ned.
First off I think dual citizenship should be abolished.
Unfortunately you sound like so many of the politicians that refuse to accept democracy.
For your information, the result was clear, it was to leave.
Your tax referendum analogy is ludicrous, it is in no way vaguely similar.
There have been many attempts to change the ways the EU ride roughshod over citizens but none have, or ever will be, successful. The only answer is to get out.

Folk with bigoted views still don’t get it. The people have had enough.
I don’t like Trump but was so glad when he beat that dirty liar Clinton.
He is by far the lesser of two evils.
Another protest vote.

Scotland would only vote to leave the UK after ‘some time’ if the UK were doing real bad after ‘Brexit’, but I believe we will do fine.
In any case, they don’t even have a plan for leaving.
They think they can use the GBP (B = British) as currency when they won’t be part of Britain?
Sturgeon is a demented, racist bigot.
If we do well, others will follow and the EU will implode, and not a moment too soon.

The only reason 'Brexit' is such a mess is because those that are meant to do our bidding have done their best to thwart it.
Had article 50 been triggered within days of the result the job would be done and we may well be on our way to being 'Great' Britain once again.
Unfortunately May was a weak, lilly-livered excuse of a ‘leader’.

The reason for me voting leave was simple.
No one had ever voted to join the EU. That’s not democracy.
Those in power have only been elected by themselves and they are answerable to no one but themselves. That’s not democracy.
It is a dictatorship.

Stating that folk didn't know what they were voting for is delusional.
How can you, or any of the like minded politicians, possibly know what people voted for?
I know what I thought I was voting for, to leave the EU in it's entirety.
No deal, no 'hard' or 'soft' 'Brexit'. There is of course no such thing as either.
To leave means to have no ties. No restrictions.
You cannot partially leave something.
If you wish to leave, a room for instance, and still have so much as a little toe in it then you haven't left.

It is unlikely that we will ever leave which means me, and millions like me, will never vote again.
We are told over and over again that the only way to change things you don’t agree with is to use your vote.
Clearly that is a lie.

No matter what any one’s views are, or how they voted, every one should now be very concerned.
Democracy has been ignored by those that are meant to do our bidding.

 

[Ned Seagoon]

Thanks Sobeit, thanks for voicing your opinion, I wonder if we will hear from any others. As the vote was not far off 50/50 for the country as a whole, I would hope to hear a range of opinions.

 

[Sobeit]

You are obviously an antagonist.
I see why others haven't replied.
Go troll elsewhere.

 

[KenB]

Sobeit,
Ned started a discussion in a forum that allows "off topic" posts.
He has been polite in his posts and has not been abusive in any way.
You added a long, well reasoned response to one of his comments - which was very informative..
There really is no reason to respond the way that you have in your last post.

If you don't agree with the tone or content of the discussion then it is a simple case of not replying.

It is the Admin's decision alone to ask a member to move on.

 

[Sobeit]

KenB
Never have I mentioned that Ned wasn't 'allowed' to post here.
You are entitled to your opinion as am I.
If nobody replied when they didn't agree with 'tone or content' then there would be little, if any, debate.
It was his lack of response to my opinions that makes me think he is an antagonist.
As no one else has replied why did he not agree/disagree?
Reason? He wants to see an argument, not a debate in my opinion.

 

[KenB]

Never have I mentioned that Ned wasn't 'allowed' to post here.

What does this imply ??

Go troll elsewhere.

 

[Ned Seagoon]

Thanks Ken.

Hey Sobeit, why the hostility? Our news here in Australia is full of Brexit news and I was wondering what the ordinary person on the street has to say about it. Rusty has told us he is sick of hearing about it and you have said that it can't happen fast enough for you.

You also told me that I should go troll elsewhere, I don't know why you should say that about me, I've never trolled anywhere, you also said that you believed Dual Citizenship should be banned, I can only assume that this is because I mentioned that I'm a dual UK/Australian. I have this because I was born in the UK and have a British birth certificate.

When I came to Australia being a British Citizen was all that was required to get a Government job, In fact I joined the Australian Army and being a British Citizen and swearing allegiance to the Queen was all I required.

Then Britain cut its ties with Commonwealth countries and withdrew from East of Suez in 1968. Australia abandoned its British Citizenship test for all Government work and started insisting on Australian Citizenship, so in 1990 I applied for Australian Citizenship. I did not do this lightly, I was born British and wished to stay British.

I had thoughts of perhaps one day I would return home. When the UK joined the EU I was pleased because that meant that home had now been expanded to include almost all of Europe and I would now be free to live in any country and travel freely between them.

Sadly age means that will probably never now happen. The withdrawal from the EU ensured this 'pipe dream' cannot happen.

The reason for this thread was to get some input from others affected, what it certainly was not was any attempt to go trolling or to turn this into a political thread.